Team Spirit
February 5th, 2015 | 
Author: I’m agnostic. An agnostic. That means I’m confident that organized religion, any that worships a single deity or deities, is complete bullshit. That means that I don’t discount the notion of a higher power because neither I or anyone else has all the answers regarding the hows and whys of the universe. It also means I don’t dismiss the idea of souls, but I admit to being a little more dubious on that one.
Religion was only allowed to once manifest and therefore exist today because of how primitive science was as recently as a century or two ago. Hello, Mormons.
Probably the biggest thing that chaps my ass about theists is that if I choose not to believe in their God, I have chosen to exist in a moral vacuum. That my lack of belief means I simply have no access to any moral compass. That the two are mutually exclusive. That I’m capable of anything.
That God makes morality objective.
Wrong. Morality is like it or not, subjective. The Christian bible is so convoluted and contradictory that it’s moral message is anything but objective. It’s no wonder Christians are so confused and so inherently hypocritical. I almost can’t blame them.
But I do because they have chosen to be full of shit.
I’m not singling out Christianity, I’m merely taking advantage of it as a convenient example. There’s no shortage of examples.
They would have me believe that I have a choice between door number one and door number two. Along with the presumption of choice is the presumption that I know full well what’s behind those two doors. Heaven or hell. Good or bad. Right or wrong. Love or hate. God or Satan. One or the other. It’s a callow and immature insistence on defining life as simply as it can be defined.
Morality is ultimately subjective. I choose to rape and kill as many people as I want. That number is Zero. Morality is the providence of philosophy and subject to the consensus ideally, of a democratic society. This is where the concepts of justice and of law enter the human condition. One could argue that religion is philosophy but all religions end up self disqualifying by purporting to be the one and only truth.
What if that’s not what’s behind them? What if there are more doors? What if doors aren’t the only choice? They tell me that’s it. It’s that simple. But they are notorious for providing no proof and obscene explanations. And again, by virtue of whatever religion, they deprive themselves of one of life’s most important choices.
Whether or not to be full of shit.
“Eternal suffering awaits anyone who questions God’s infinite love”. -Bill Hicks.
Drinks for my friends.
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Well stated. Echoes my thoughts. Being a decent person is who I choose to be. Not because I might be punished, or go to hell. Being a decent member of humanity is who I choose to be because my upbringing instilled values, helped foster empathy. The understanding of why humans should be decent in our behavior toward others was demonstrated by a parent who recognized that teaching by fear or coercion only creates a false goodness. One that might disappear when risk of discovery is limited.
People who are good only from fear, would they still be good in the absence of religion?
I agree. I stopped trying to find “god” at the age of 12 when a pastor told me when I questioned what about sparrows and he said…not to worry, there are so many of them. My Mother taught me compassion and gave me a great moral compass in such directives as “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything” and most of all to always question!!! To think outside the box! Organized religion is the biggest reason there is so much hate in the World today.
I think some of the best examples of moral subjectivity are the “founding fathers” of this country that are so revered by republicans and the christian right. Yes, they founded this country. Yes, they were courageous to break free from a royal “tyranny”. But, and this is a big but, they owned other people. They had slaves. They had female slaves they sometimes raped. At the same time they were writing, “All men are created equal”, they had men and women and children in their fields being whipped by overseers and being being bought and sold like commodities.
So, are these founding fathers in hell? To me, the sin of slavery is much greater than the writing of a couple of historic documents. Are these people that should be role models throughout history? Are they “good” or “evil”?
I don’t know how these people were ultimately judges, if, indeed they were. I believe as you do as far as religion and a higher power. I just don’t know. People of “faith” who have no doubts about the existence of God seem to be some of the most amoral people around.
People can believe what they want and have faith in what they want, but when that turns to trying to control people, it has to stop. That’s why the “founding fathers” broke away from the king. They were sick of being controlled by a monarchy they did not believe in.
And now we have come full circle. Almost.
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I do not want to make your opinion seem ‘wrong” so i will pick only one obvious mistake and misunderstaning on your part of the Christian choices
In giving the choise offered of Christian to be full of scht you have totally left out the richer on of Holy Scht. Qith this in mind understand that all they cling to is free to become excellant compost for others. We all have this option; knowing that ( their) ( our) scht is holy should make life a lot more pleasant no matter who you are!
What I’ve always wondered is that since religious belief tends to specify “lists” of “dos” and “don’ts,” what does a person do when, inevitably, they come across a situation in life that isn’t on either of the lists?
Thumbs up. I don’t know how any thinking person can believe in religion. Their faith is just unimaginable to me. How anyone believes the bible is non fiction is beyond my comprehension.
Humans are weird…
Get a dictionary already. An “agnostic” is not someone who is “confident that organized religion, any that worships a single deity or deities, is complete bullshit.”
Since I’ve both an agnostic and a Christian I agree that morality does not require deities or religious affiliation. However, being a Christian dies not require the rejection of scientific thought and lack of intelligence. Otherwise, Sir Isaac Newton would not, could not become the father of physics. He and many other Christians that contributed to the body of scientific knowledge that exists today knew that faith is based on belief and did not confuse it with science or use it to deny science. My frustration as a Christian is that because some people in my faith don’t believe in science and take the bible literally, all Christians are lumped into one category. That’s like saying because some women are nuns, all women are celibate or that some men are rich, wealth is a male characteristic. I really don’t care what others believe and don’t try to bring them over to my side because freedom of religion has to be maintained in order to avoid creating a totalitarian government. Agnostics and atheists have as much right to not practice or believe in religion as I do to believe and practice mine which I do mostly privately because I have yet to meet a church or denomination that suits my needs. Thanks for bringing your point of view to the discussion.
Well, Michael, you have opened the doors to crazytown! Let me know if you need any assistance, as I am probably even more of an agnostic, and a BIGGER asshole. It’s living in Texas, I tell you, it’s living in Texas-and MO before that. Though the two states don’t have a monopoly on whackos, they do have more than their fair share.